Curse

Lasher Dragon · Mar 13, 2006, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade ++RIP++

You might not be able to do some armourswapping, but hey that can be fixed by a simple inability to swap equipment during instances. (It is quite redicolous to get out of your armor in mid battle anyway...).

OT I know, but I find it immensely irritating that, during a battle, I can change outfits as I see fit, but god forbid I try to identify or salvage anything. On top of that, you have to wait like 30 seconds or some shit after the battle to do either of those things. Could someone explain the logic behind that?

CKaz · Mar 13, 2006, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titan Chrae

In other business models where there are "Expansion Packs", Continued "Chapters", etc... You get NO "extra" character slots. You either start a new character from scratch or you import your old character. This business model is totally different from any other I've ever seen. Does anyone have an example of a business model where you can both import all your old characters and create an equal number of new characters for any game sequal?

That stated...I would love to have had 6 character slots in Prophesies and 8 total linking Factions but I think the slots we have is fair.

Diablo2 had a ton you could create even on servers
EQ had 8 per server, most other MMORPGs did that

GW mostly fits the D2 model.
They have MMORPG aspects but also a similiar price model if you look deeper too (chapters every 6mo works out to a pretty good subscription model)

If you unlock/for pvp you make many choices for pvp unlocks
Then you need a slot for that unlock
Then you might want particular pve chars.. easy to get tied up quick

No other game AFAIK has worked like that.
Could you imagine no character slots?

Again Titan the biggest problem is you start behind the ball and a lot of us hit the wall a long time ago and really had hoped for the best here. Until CGW I don't think we had a glimmer as to what might happen with character slots.

And until the big discussion regarding it I wouldn't doubt they planned only 1 slot for those linking. Plus GW is making some new ground in the business model arena as it is (and obviously winging it a bit :b) so trying to compare them in that area might be difficult.

Mordakai · Mar 13, 2006, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buoyancy

Anet promises you 8 total character slots if you don't link your account. If you do link your account you only get 6 accounts. Thus, by buying Factions, Anet has promised me access to database storage for 8 accounts. When they only provide you with 6 slots for a merged account, they are not giving you everything that you paid for.

Everyone here knows you're getting 6 slots with merging. So, sorry, no "promise" of 8 slots linked in any way, shape or form. You assumed. You are paying for content, not slots alone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buoyancy

I always like it when somebody who's losing an argument starts to lie about what their opponent has stated. Why don't you provide the quotes where I have told anybody to quit posting. Oh that's right, I never made such a post. Why don't you provide the quote where I stated that I don't play GW anymore. Oh that's right, I never said that. Please don't lie about your opponents arguments, and please don't pretend that strawmen are valid arguments.

I took this

Quote:

Please don't waste everybody's time by playing devil's advocate.

as telling someone to quit posting. I've since re-read all your posts, and realize you were arguing semantics, not telling him to stop.

I apologize.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buoyancy

Please explain to me how an account with the original game and four expansions all linked together having a total of 22 character slots uses more memory than the original game and four unmerged expansions with 22 character slots. Actually, why don't you explain to me how the 8 characters with Guild Wars and Factions unlinked uses more memory uses more memory than would be used with the accounts merged. I could use a good laugh.

I don't need to explain that, because I never said it did. What I said was, I expect that most people will link accounts, thus saving Anet money in the long run.

But perhaps you have a better reason why Anet is "cheating" you out of two slots? Oh, yes, because they are evil and want to piss off their customers.

Yes, that makes sense.

Eugaet · Mar 13, 2006, 09:53 PM // 21:53

When you purchase Prophecies you're paying for 4 unmerged accounts. When you purchase Factions you're paying for 4 unmerged accounts. At $50 each, let's say each slot is worth $12.50. So $100 for 8 slots at $12.50 each.

If you merged your Prophecies and Factions accounts, $100 split 6 ways is $16.67. So a merged account is worth $4.17 more than an unmerged. Is getting twice the content for your slots worth $4.17 more per slot? Seems like a great deal to me.

It's not just about the slots. The content is worth something, too. The content ain't free.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buoyancy

A merged slot is more valuable, ...I don't care how much extra content you get by mergind your accounts. You are still being ripped off for half of the databse storage that you paid for.

This is the error in your argument. You believe you have bought something that you have not. You're purchasing unmerged slots. You even stated yourself that you believe a merged slot is more valuable. You're contradicting yourself.

Let me give a simpler example:

The local grocery store is selling oranges. You can buy them in bags containing 1 orange and in bags containing 2 oranges. Bags containing 1 orange cost $3. Bags containing 2 oranges cost $4. You can spend $24 to get 8 bags of 1 orange for a total of 8 oranges or 6 bags of 2 oranges for a total of 12 oranges. It's $24 either way. But you get a better deal with 6 bags of 2.

A bag containing 2 oranges (merged account) is more valuable than a bag containing 1 orange (unmerged account).

Sorry for the late reply...kept getting interrupted. Now I have to read all the posts between this one and the one I'm replying to.

Renegade ++RIP++ · Mar 13, 2006, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titan Chrae

In other business models where there are "Expansion Packs", Continued "Chapters", etc... You get NO "extra" character slots. You either start a new character from scratch or you import your old character. This business model is totally different from any other I've ever seen. Does anyone have an example of a business model where you can both import all your old characters and create an equal number of new characters for any game sequal?

That stated...I would love to have had 6 character slots in Prophesies and 8 total linking Factions but I think the slots we have is fair.

sacred - sacred underworld (expansion) offers 2 more charslots while 2 nex professions. Ability to play 'hardcore chars' being online saved, which get deleted as soon as you die. Free online play. Offers horseriding and is by many seen as diablo 3 (even though it ain't as great). And guess what still only same price while the expansion got a price reduction in comparison to the official product. On top of that sacred itself received a free contentupdate (nearly same size as SF) also called sacred - plus.

The only difference is that the graphics aren't as shiny, and look more like a polished version of diablo2.

The only difference with the product of GW and sacred is that if GW ever goes broke I won't be able to play on... while I can still fire up sacred. This was mainly one of my biggest beefs since I am kinda hooked to rpgs (In still install and play BG when I am in the mood)

Mordakai · Mar 13, 2006, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade ++RIP++

sacred - sacred underworld (expansion) offers 2 more charslots while 2 nex professions.

not familiar with this... is it considered a MMORPG? (uh, wait. I don't want to start Loviatar on his CORPG vs MMORPG argument...)

just kidding, Loviatar...

Katari · Mar 13, 2006, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

Sounds good until you look at the facts. Originally people were asking for 2 slots, which was justified and now people are asking for four. There is a problem with having infinite slots in this game from a business perspective if nothing else. The fact that you ask for 4 slots means you want 4 slots every 6 months with every chapter, which means you want a ton more slots than your "naysayers". The argument isn't as out there as you'd like to make it.

While the other thread was titled as a petition for two slots, past the first page or three the arguments were nearly exactly the same as presented in this thread. There was no drastic change in what people were asking for after they announced the 4+4=6 deal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

The argument is really about throwing off in game balance. People don't want to have to grind 4 players to be competitive. Go see my 15 other posts on this. If this didn't effect the entire community we wouldn't care. If I don't view the policy as unfair and I like the balance more, then this point of view isn't totally stupid as you'd make it out to be. If I wanted to grind forever I'd play Silkroad like all the EP guys are doing atm, but the lack of grind is part of what makes the game interesting.

And just how are more options going to cause grind? I won't want to be forced to GRIND to rebuild a ranger. I don't want to GRIND to bring back my mesmer if I decided I don't like that ranger. It's grind because it's repetitive, when you play through with the same character over and over gain because you have no other choice, not because you want to, but because you're forced to, that is grind. How eould people be forced to gind more with more slots? It's not like casual players feel forced to gind to fill their slots currently. You've claimed that limiting character slots reduces grind in the past, and I think your points were firmly refuted in the past as well.

BellyFlop · Mar 13, 2006, 10:42 PM // 22:42

I was going to say Sacred as well but not sure if anyone outside Europe knew about this game.

Quote:

The only difference with the product of GW and sacred is that if GW ever goes broke I won't be able to play on... while I can still fire up sacred.

Kind of weird cos last week I found the game in the shelf and try to play it but kept getting kickout of the server. just after 5 minutes or so.

I was never a big fan of the game so never got underworld.

Quote:

not familiar with this... is it considered a MMORPG?

IS Guild Wars considered a MMORPG?

Back to the topic, I don’t understand if the Anet people say they read the forums why have they made a comment on this thread.

Plus all that I have said before, if they cant gives more slots then gives us a option to but some slots, or lets us merge the accounts that we have.

I have 2 Guild Wars accounts just cos I wanted to try the entire game by playing all; characters as primary and have some slot for PvP. And dint feel like having to delete characters just cos of that.

Renegade ++RIP++ · Mar 13, 2006, 11:46 PM // 23:46

strange, you did update your version to the last one right sinc eit received a ton of bugfixes and rebalancing during its life. It was kinda buggy at start. Although the point was that you could still play it as a singleplayerversion so offline.

latest news concerning online play is this though:
Lobby maintenance in the week of 9th February to 15th February.

The International lobby will be experiencing downtime at the 9th, 13th and 14th February.

source: http://eng.sacred-game.com/index.php?subsiteid=0

Mordakai · Mar 14, 2006, 04:17 AM // 04:17

Well, I would be playing Guild Wars right now, but they reset their server...

First time this has happened to my knowledge. Very bad timing.

Zehnchu · Mar 14, 2006, 05:03 AM // 05:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Well, I would be playing Guild Wars right now, but they reset their server...

First time this has happened to my knowledge. Very bad timing.

Come to think about it this roll back is taking a lot of time, do you think it might have something do with the “little database” everyone keeps talking about? I mean how hard should it be to roll back four hours of everyone who played today on that “little database” of information.

Gargle Blaster · Mar 14, 2006, 06:12 AM // 06:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zehnchu

Come to think about it this roll back is taking a lot of time, do you think it might have something do with the “little database” everyone keeps talking about? I mean how hard should it be to roll back four hours of everyone who played today on that “little database” of information.

- a blind guess about the current issue -thanks for your ignorant generalization

this thread could use a few more.

Note: if you are not from Anet dont talk for Anet --thanks in advance

Raif · Mar 14, 2006, 10:14 AM // 10:14

and again this argument on both sides continues with a lack of response from anyone at Anet. I would love to see a response from said Weekes or Gaile about the lack of slot offering.
As a forum member pointed out earlier, since Anet are about making money how did they miss such an opportunity by not offering an extra slot in CE. Hell, I woulda shelled out extra for that. Not for a piece of cloth - the irl verison of gwens tapestry shred, it just takes up inventory space!

Xenrath · Mar 14, 2006, 10:52 AM // 10:52

Yeah wish someone from Anet would say something too. It's a little disappointing because if you reserve one slot for PvP (or I don't know, let's say Supertank) and play the two new classes.. that leaves 3 primaries still not played if you link your accounts!

For me I have 3 level 20s: warrior, mesmer, monk. All with very good equipment and skills etc. which I don't want to lose.

1 slot used up for PvP/other stuff

So 2 new slots I'll probably fill with the Ritualist and Assassin.

3 classes still unplayed - Ele, Necro and Ranger. The only way around it is to delete existing chars which had a lot of time/effort put into them, or buy a 2nd account (and then buy another copy/copies of Factions...) Why they couldn't just let you buy some extra slots for a low price I don't know...

ngoducthang · Mar 15, 2006, 08:14 PM // 20:14

The slots thing is a piss off for a lot of fans and players. Why would they limit you of being able to completely finish the game off character & content wise. Only explaination is they want you to waste money. I was already surprised that there was a 4 slots limit with the first GW. I can't believe they are doing this combine/reduce slot thing with the second GW. It's just so stupid, they know everyone will merge. Who would want to waste all the time, money and items you have on ur first GW character and not be able to play it when you buy the next game? Who as ever heard of an addon (althought they say Factions is a game in itself for all the players that own Prophecies i'm sure they all consider it an expansion, like don't take us as idiots please. My whole guild is waiting on their decision on the slots thing to decide wether to buy the Factions part or not. Considering the gaming world is so big i'm sure sooner or later someone will create a game with features much like GW and will probably try to beat out GW by making a better deal etc. I mean look at WoW i know it has a monthly fee, but it costs $90 for 6 months which is like GW upgrades which go for $50 each upgrade. By paying monthly for WoW people play it non-stop so they can get that feeling they are using the max of their money. With Guildwars if you consider having to pay per month for Guildwars you would probably finish the game with all 4 characters all done with quests, bonuses, missions, elite caps, skills etc within 3 months if you play as much as the Wow players do. If you can understand what i'm getting at the contect of GW isn't as much as of WoW and if you lay it all out side by side the value for WoW is similar to GW... only difference is you have to play it 24/7 or has much as possible while with GW you can just sit back and play whenever you want. Maybe i'm going on too much but really it's bad enough GW has little content it's even worse they are taking away from our flexibility to utilize GW to it's full extent. Overall, a bad move on the creators.

Mordakai · Mar 15, 2006, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by ngoducthang

Overall, a bad move on the creators.

That remains to be seen. If they make more money (by people buying multiple accounts), then it was a very smart move.

It all depends on how many people don't buy Factions because of this versus how many buy more copies...

For the record, I'm only buying one collector's edition. But, then, I only have two real characters on my account, so slots aren't that important to me.

Zehnchu · Mar 15, 2006, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gargle Blaster

ignorant generalization

Well you know what they say, takes one to know one.

So by your terms that would apply to everyone who posted about database, file size and all that.

Gargle Blaster · Mar 15, 2006, 09:31 PM // 21:31

It is not my intention to insult you or anyone else on a personal level. The comments about what were causing the issues on monday are completly with out any evidence or merit.

No, i dont think everyone here has posted ignorant generalizations, as some have given facts to support their comments and an examples of how databases work.

Pi_Numurian · Mar 15, 2006, 09:32 PM // 21:32

I'm glad I need more characters

Titan Chrae · Mar 15, 2006, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade ++RIP++

sacred - sacred underworld (expansion) offers 2 more charslots while 2 nex professions. Ability to play 'hardcore chars' being online saved, which get deleted as soon as you die. Free online play. Offers horseriding and is by many seen as diablo 3 (even though it ain't as great). And guess what still only same price while the expansion got a price reduction in comparison to the official product. On top of that sacred itself received a free contentupdate (nearly same size as SF) also called sacred - plus.

The only difference is that the graphics aren't as shiny, and look more like a polished version of diablo2.

The only difference with the product of GW and sacred is that if GW ever goes broke I won't be able to play on... while I can still fire up sacred. This was mainly one of my biggest beefs since I am kinda hooked to rpgs (In still install and play BG when I am in the mood)

While I am only vaguely familiar with sacred (My mom picked up for $10 at Walmart), from what I see it is vastly inferior to Guildwars. I could barely stand to watch her play it because it so bored me.

So it has a business model similar to Guildwars (Which is what I asked) Is there a simlar value in the Sacred Business model? Doubling two slots to 4 provides you with the same number of slots as the original Guildwars: Prophecies. Can your new characters also play the content of the original sacred game?

In guild wars you are basically able to play 6 characters through two entire games (Barring the tutorial content). Not only that, you can move freely from game to game with these characters and what takes place in one game affects the other game. You basically have two games with 6 slots each if you link your accounts.

As to the online only content: When I first purchased GW I thought...if the there is a server crash or something I'm dead in the water...True... but how many times has that happened in the last year. And I'm never going to play another solo RPG game. It is just not as much fun without human interaction. (The old ULTIMA Series rocked when I was a kid though -- before I knew better)